so_out_of_ideas: (fic_RH)
so_out_of_ideas ([personal profile] so_out_of_ideas) wrote2007-08-05 10:08 am
Entry tags:

*Facepalm*

Some of this is meant to be informative. Some is just my need to vent. Take it as you will.

On Colloquialism in Fanfiction. (Or fiction in general)


Firstly, an interesting little factoid for those of us who write. I am not expert on the ins and outs of academia by any means. In fact, I sort of avoid professional intellectualism when at all possible. However, some things are just good to know, even if one has no intention of writing academically or professionally.

The accepted standard for word usage and definition in English is The Oxford English Dictionary The unabridged version is that huge reference book one commonly finds in public libraries. As a side note, for those in the UK, most public libraries have a subscription to Oxford's Online which can apparently be accessed by patrons from home. News to me. However, I'm from the US and I don't own the thing because it weighs a ton and can be rather intimidating. For every day use in the United States, I recommend The American Heritage Dictionary. (I'm not sure, honestly, what its equivalent would be in other English speaking countries. Anyone know?) One might ask, why this one and not Webster? Well, in a nutshell, there is not currently a trademark on the name "Webster" as it applies to publishing. Which means, essentially, that if I had a printing press, I could make my own dictionary and slap the name "Webster's" on it. Certainly, if one sees a word and wants to learn its definition, any of the dictionaries currently published under the name "Webster" would suffice. It's really not the place one wants to look to discover his or her pet grammatical error is, in fact, standard usage in American English.




I understand and appreciate concepts like linguistic shifts, regional dialects, etc. Words get into the dictionary because people use them, not because academics and scholars think they sound nice. With the advent of the World Wide Web, the english language is beginning to change much more quickly than it used to. Some words and phrases which irritate the crap out of me are not standard English today probably will be in another ten or fifteen years.

I respect authors who can use regional dialects appropriately and not make the narrative or dialogue sound forced. I've been known to use them myself. That said, there are limitations on when and how often colloquialisms should appear.

This is a made up example because I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. I am from New England. I write Stargate fanfiction. The SGC, last time I checked, was in Cheyenne Mountain, not The White Mountains. Therefore, despite the fact that where I come from, it might be perfectly normal to hear "Jack crossed the road so he could stay over to Sam's house for the night," if a story was being told orally, this is just not the acceptable way for one to write the sentence. Unless one is writing in a setting that is clearly regional, it's important stay away from dialect-- especially in the narrative.

Dialogue is exempt from most rules of grammar and usage standards. Within reason, it's perfectly fine to use colloquial speech inside quotation marks. There are two things the author does need to keep in mind, though.

Point one, the dialogue needs to be appropriate to the character's background. No matter how tempted I may be to make him say it, General Hammond would not utter the phrase, "Oh, ayuh." Cameron Mitchell might occassionally let slip with a "y'all." He and both Jack O'Neill might sometimes drop the "g" from a word ending in an "-ing" suffix. (More often Cam than Jack, I think.) That said, both men are officers in the United States Air Force. They have had enough education to know how to construct a sentence. Even in casual conversation or in the heat of a battle, there are some things that they're just not going to say.

Point two, an author needs to assume that many (if not most) readers are not from the same area of the country that he or she is. In fact, the reader may not be from the author's nation at all. This is true for book and magazine authors, but it is of vital importance when publishing something to the web. The appeal of the internet is that, by its very nature, it can allow people from all over the world to interract with one another. Fanfiction existed before the web, of course, but its popularity and prevalence now is largely linked to internet, which functions as a forum in which fans can connect and share with one another. If a story is so colloquial that it's difficult for a reader to follow, that reader is probably going to click off and find something else to read.

There are authors I enjoy whose books are set in specific locations and who employ a casual narrative style that encorporates local dialect. It can be fun when done well. It's disconcerting when done poorly, and it is always more challenging to read. For fanfiction, unless an author is extremely confident in his or her ability to do this, I recommend keeping the dialectical elements safely within the confines of quotation marks. Use standard english in the narrative itself.

Notes on some things which I have encountered before and which authors seem to regard as acceptable either because they are colloquial or because they are so common that they're believed to be standard usage. They are, in fact, grammatical errors. They make me twitch. (Yes, here it comes. Those who know me are probably rolling their eyes.)

"Alot" and "alright." There are other words which have been contracted out of "all" this way and are now accepted as standard use in the english language. For example, "already" and "almost" began as two words.

"Alright" is coming into use in British english, apparently. It is, however, not in Oxford's yet to my knowledge. It is not correct in narrative prose or in an academic setting. It appears in some versions of Websters and it has become acceptable usage in journalistic or business writing worldwide. However, we've established that Webster's is just meh. Furthermore, in both journalism and business writing, the task of the writer is to inform the reader, and there is a heavy focus on being succint. This is the reason, honestly, that my interest in journalism as a career was short-lived. If a contraction is going to come into use, it makes sense that it would be popularized in these genres first.

"Alot," fellow writers, is simply wrong. Forgive me for being blunt, but it is the truth, and I should not be seeing this word in a fanfiction. Yes, I too have caught it in books on occassion, and every time I see it I cringe. Editors and publishers should really know better. It can't be presented as a colloquialism because it sounds the same whether there is a space or not. It's two words. We don't write things like "alittle." Therefore, we should not be writing "alot."

Both of them will, I'm sure slink their way into the real dictionary sooner or later. Once they do I will continue to twitch, but I will do silently and stop posting about them on my livejournal. Until then, however, I will stand here quite happily on my soapbox.

On the construction of dialogue.

The correct--yes, correct!-- way to write prose dialogue is:

"I'm going to the store," said Jack.

Jack said, "I'm going to the store."


It is not:

Jack--I am going to the store.


Fellow writers, please. Only use IM RPG format in your IM RPG. (If you don't know what an IM RPG is, you probably don't need to, but ask, and I'll explain.) Even if you were writing a play or a movie script, the format would be:

Jack: (direction here) I'm going to the store.

I believe that in British/Canadian english, single quotes are used where double quotes would be in the US. Like so:

'I'm going to the store,' said Jack.

In Europe (outside the UK) I'm told the format is like this:

__EDIT__ since Aruna has corrected my European grammar.

-I'm going to the store.

Without "Jack said" only if there's more than one person.speaking. With only one person speaking in which case format is the same as US.

However, I think that's reserved for when writing in the language of that country. I vaguely remember that from my useless three years of Spanish in high school.

I could be mistaken there, but there is one thing I do know. The following are wrong:

::I'm going to the store,:: said Jack.

Jack said, ^I'm going to the store.^

+I'm going to the store,+ said Jack.
Jack said, =I'm going to the store.=

I'm going to assume that anyone with the inclination to write a fanfiction has at least passed the equivalent of grade school language arts class. Therefore, my assumption is, the author would be constructing the dialogue this way on purpose. In that case, there is only one thing I can say. Writing dialogue with funky characters in the middle of your prose isn't trendy or avant garde. It just confuses the reader and makes you look like you don't know what you're doing.

__EDIT again__

I'm sick of typing examples, and I'm sure Jack has gotten back from the store by now. However, I thought this was interesting. From [livejournal.com profile] cha_aka:

Another note on dialog. In Guatemala for certain, but from what they've told me also in other Spanish-speaking countries, dialog is just like in English only with << >> instead of quotation marks.


What is the bottom line of all this? Why am I bothering to post it at all? Well, honestly, I am posting it out of my love for writing and my love for the english language. I don't ask or expect that everyone who writes fanfic is an english buff who just loves anything to do with the language or with the written word in general. I would however, appreciate it greatly if, having taken the time to craft a story of any sort, authors would simply respect the language in which it was written and the readers from whom they hope to recieve feedback.

Speaking of feedback:

This is a bit of a rant, also a question. Though I suppose the people that question is adressed to probably will not respond. Oh well.



As an author, there are few things that mystify me more than individuals who watch/request membership in my AU fic communities, friend this journal, or add my stories to their favorites list and yet have NEVER ONCE left even a single word of review. I'm not a "commment whore" by any means. I do appreciate feedback, certainly, but if I don't receive a comment, I am neither offended nor inclined to stop writing/making graphics. These are things I have to do, and if others enjoy them, I'm glad, but I'm not going to be upset if no one pats me on the back. I have long since accepted the axiom that more people read/take than will ever comment. However, if a reader likes my story enough to want more, it might be nice to perhaps tell me what parts he or she liked and didn't like about the piece. Furthermore, I like to THANK my readers. Goodness knows if they have stuck with any of my AUs, they deserve credit for the time and energy that they've invested. I consider it a compliment. I don't bite unless I'm bitten first, so I really have trouble figuring this one out. Anyone have some insight?

Oh, also while I'm at it. The term one-shot means just that. There is only one chapter. The fic is complete. It's done. There is no more. I am certainly flattered whenever someone takes the time to actually LEAVE a gosh darn review. However. "aw, so frickin cute. i want more." in all lower case on a 600 word fic described in the summary as a one-shot just mystifies me.



Aruna just got here, which made me think of something else. This has nothing to do with writing, but I haven't clicked the post button yet.

Helpful hints for graphic makers (be it icons or larger fanart/wallpapers)

There is a thing called aspect ratio. I don't mean this to be snide. I didn't always know what it was either.

Essentially, it means the ratio between the length and the width of source image. When making photomanips, an artist really needs to make sure that the source images have the same aspect ratio, not just that they're the same size. It's not as important with collages, because those can be more abstract. With photomanipulation, however, the idea is that those looking at it can believe the is natural if they recognize the originals.

Stretching or squishing subject A to make her the right height to be standing beside subject B does not work. Try cropping the pictures differently so it looks like they could be standing together naturally. My userpic is a good example *points* Contrary to what you might think, that's not just the promo from Origin. I have a larger version of the manip someplace where you can see more of Daniel and Vala, but I had to crop his legs and her dress, otherwise it would have been obvious he wasn't really holding her live body.

Also in regard to photomanips. More my opinion than anything, but I'm trying to be constructive, not bashing anyone's work here. I don't claim to be an expert at manips. In fact, I don't do them often, and I know several girls on LJ who are better at them than me. This is pretty much stuff I've learned the hard way.

Taking two pictures that don't go together and are of obviously different qualities and slapping them on a scenic background is what my niece did when she was six. Of course, she used magazines and scissors, but that's what it looks like when it's done on the computer. If you really need to make these, it would help the viewer suspend his/her disbelief if the images were the same quality. Try playing with the coloring on your finished manip. I can hear the objection that it "won't look natural", but it doesn't look natural the other way already. Adding a simple gradient or even a color layer can do wonders for this. On the icon above, I think used the same texture as the background but placed it over the image on soft-light at low opacity and erased whatever parts I didn't want. I may have then taken the base layer, duplicated it and dragged it to the top of my layer palette set to overlay. Not sure.

And a bit of a commentary on iconning trends and annoyances. Possibly leaning toward a rant, but I'll try to keep it constructive.

-cropping your image smaller than 100x100 and sticking it against the most gaudy texture/background you can find doesn't make an icon, it makes an eyesore. I have some gaudy textures. Don't use them much, but I have them. They can be fun to play with, but even then, they should compliment the image. Unless of course there's a new trend in iconning where the subject is secondary to the background, which is honestly possible given some of the awful trends I've seen in the admittedly few (3) years I've been making icons. Use coloring that fits with the texture, or a texture that fits with the coloring, and if you must use one with stripes, ask yourself whether you spend more time looking at the stripes than the icon subject.

-Princess Leia is not radioactive. Neither is Harry Potter, Ron Weasley, Sam Carter, or whoever else is currently in vogue. Hiking the saturation and/or using selective coloring is great. However, I don't want an icon of a character who looks like a escapee from a reactor core. I've made a few radioactive icons in my time, I admit. I look at them and cringe. Moderation is the key. If it would be scary in real life, it's scary in an icon. Enhancing eye color is fine, but don't give me Daniel Jackson with eyes so BLUE!!! he looks possesed.

-EDIT-

One final note. If you have a dark base image, use at least a screen layer. If you don't know what a screen layer is, check any of my tutorials. Oh yes, and...the red blob. Please. Avoid the red blob. I don't know how many otherwise wonderful graphics are just totally ruined by the having a red, glowing light texture in the middle of them. I'm not saying it never works. But it usually doesn't, and if you're going to use it, please use it with restraint.

[identity profile] aruna7.livejournal.com 2007-08-05 09:39 pm (UTC)(link)
I read it all... Such a surprise I know! ;)

I know that I wrote several things so far, but that I really started writing in English this year, and that I know I have loads to improve even now since it's not my first language... But I try to respect as much as I can both language and way of writing... Because this is right... I mean, you don't go and start caring about nothing when you write, as much about the plot, universe, grammar and format... Or maybe this is just me as well...

As for the way of presenting in Europe outside UK, I went O.o. Seriously... I so don't know this format... In France, for dialogue you have two ways of doing things:

The US version you mention, or you skip the Jack said and write the dialogue directly this way:

- I am going to the store.

This is the way you do things when you have two persons talking. Cause if you have only one person talking you use the same as in the US, it seems.

As for aspect ratio.... Don't make me start... I know I was the first to frell aspect ratio about vidding when I began.. But now I'm here *bleh bleh bleh* huge time... And it's easy to fix in any image/video editing software... *sigh*

Hum, I think I'm done here so far... Cause I see a topic alike where I could start ranting but this is not the point, so I won't mess with your own venting post *hugs*

[identity profile] so-out-of-ideas.livejournal.com 2007-08-05 09:51 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, I wasn't sure on the dialogue format either, but I checked with someone. Should have asked you. Of course you weren't here, so... lol. But since I said I wasn't sure on that one, I guess I'm safe.

[identity profile] aruna7.livejournal.com 2007-08-05 10:01 pm (UTC)(link)
I guess you are hehe... I didn't plan to frying pan you anyway ;)

[identity profile] cha-aka.livejournal.com 2007-08-05 10:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Good rant. *thumbsup*

Another note on dialog. In Guatemala for certain, but from what they've told me also in other Spanish-speaking countries, dialog is just like in English only with << >> instead of quotation marks. Not important to the point, obviously, but interesting. (And I should probably point out how visually distracting it is to me unless I've been reading a whole book in Spanish and gotten used to it...)

[identity profile] so-out-of-ideas.livejournal.com 2007-08-05 10:20 pm (UTC)(link)
Interesting note. *goes to add to rant*

[identity profile] maevebran.livejournal.com 2007-08-06 07:43 am (UTC)(link)
Even if you were writing a play or a movie script, the format would be:

Jack: (direction here) I'm going to the store.


That is indeed correct for plays but when talking movie scripts it gets trickier (first it must be in Courier no other font will do.)then the name of charcter gets center over the text and there are set margins and things but no puntuation marks between charater an dialouge because they are on sepperate lines. (Just thought I'd let you know since this is something I deal with.
SHEPPARD
A couple of hours? We missed our check in. I've got to get back to the jumper and inform Elizabeth.

[identity profile] maevebran.livejournal.com 2007-08-06 07:46 am (UTC)(link)
I tried to center the Sheppard in the previous example but I failed. If you ever need an example to look at let me know. (The thing I like about my script writing software is it formats for me. So I can't tell you exactly how many tabs this or that needs but can tell you it is dirrent depending on whether or not it is dialouge or actions or scene headers.)

[identity profile] so-out-of-ideas.livejournal.com 2007-08-06 12:00 pm (UTC)(link)
Hmmm...okay, then the SW script drafts I've been reading since February have been incorrectly formated. Although, come to think of it I have seen the characters' names in all caps.

[identity profile] maevebran.livejournal.com 2007-08-06 08:12 pm (UTC)(link)
The what script drafts? can you send me the link? (If you really care to see proper formating I can email you one of my scripts. Either the SGA spec or the 12 pages of original movie script that I'm working on.)

[identity profile] so-out-of-ideas.livejournal.com 2007-08-06 08:20 pm (UTC)(link)
http://www.blueharvest.net/scoops/pm-script.shtml
TPM is here. AOTC is on the same site. The others are actually not on the net, but I'm not sure the individual I got them from wants to be mentioned.

[identity profile] so-out-of-ideas.livejournal.com 2007-08-06 08:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, and thanks for the offer in regard to your scripts. I don't really need to see them since I don't plan on trying screenwriting any time soon, but if I do, I'll let you know.

[identity profile] maevebran.livejournal.com 2007-08-06 09:07 pm (UTC)(link)
Ok. I looked at the website you mentioned and while close that is not the way it would be formatted for actual use in the industry. It does a good enough job to communicate the script for most purposes.

[identity profile] so-out-of-ideas.livejournal.com 2007-08-06 09:09 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks for the info. It suited my needs at the time, so I won't be nitpicky this time. ;)

[identity profile] maevebran.livejournal.com 2007-08-06 09:13 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah formatting is different fom Grammar. (Don't kill me if I misspell stuff I have ADHD and try but sometimes I just can't manage to spell things right in comments. I use spell check for actual fic but sometimes I can't spell the word close enough for the spell check to figure out what I mean. I really hate that.)

[identity profile] so-out-of-ideas.livejournal.com 2007-08-06 09:15 pm (UTC)(link)
Dude, I mispell stuff in comments all the time. In fact, I've been known to miss typos in my fic too. It only really bothers me when there's so much spelled wrong that it's obvious the person didn't even take the time to go back through it again.

[identity profile] gate-ship.livejournal.com 2007-08-06 04:57 pm (UTC)(link)
Okay, I tried to post this and then my wireless died. I hate it when that happens.

But to move back on topic, I applaud this post. I'm another stickler for grammar--though I find that my grammar is not always amazing--because of my English class last year. In my mind, Literature is the reading portion of class and English is the study of the English language--vocab, spelling, grammar, and the like. Anyways, thank you so very much for this. People should know how to write if their eighteen. (I read half of a fic that an eighteen year old wrote--or so they said anyways--that looked like my sixth grade sister could do better.)

[identity profile] so-out-of-ideas.livejournal.com 2007-08-06 05:02 pm (UTC)(link)
Icon love. And yes, exactly. I have a tendancy of only reading fanfic written by a few select authors I've found who actually write well.

[identity profile] gate-ship.livejournal.com 2007-08-06 05:22 pm (UTC)(link)
I made the icon from The Brothers Hildebrant's paintings. If you're interested, I have more. http://gate-ship.livejournal.com/23499.html#cutid1

[identity profile] ladybeth.livejournal.com 2007-08-06 11:21 pm (UTC)(link)
I had a teacher once go on a rant about a few words. One of them was alot. Only he went on a bigger rant where he said using 'a lot' was not good either because it does not mean a large quanity, it means a piece of ground.

As for the qoutation marks, I know in Austraila, they use the single ' mark too. My sister and I ended up getting a whole bunch of old romance novels from a patient of my mother's and alot of them were based in Austraila, so I'm assuming the publishing company is from there since it was one of those monthly/bimonthy romanace novel sets.

Very interesting info on the icon-making. I'm just starting and am trying to get away from just using filters because that seems to be where I'm stuck and I need to use other stuff if I want to do anything with graphics period, not just icons.